The Athenaeum Forum

by **seeker** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:55 pm

Just to clarify: my money comment refers to plagiarism and not copyright violation regarding fanfiction. Sorry for the confusion.

As a matter of fact, I agree with this blog post below, since fanfiction is really promoting the original work (I only watched some episodes of Xena after I had found the fanfiction):

Why Isn't There A Fan-Use Exception To Copyright Law?
http://techdirt.com/articles/20090514/0102354877.shtml

by **k_alexander** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:50 am

ukendt001 wrote:And then I have a confession to make - I have entered the Xenavers quite by accident. I have never watched an episode of the series and I have no wish to do so. I'm quite sure that I enjoy all the Uber/Original stories with the little blond and the big raven haired beauties and the adventures or romances that the bards lets them experience just the same as a "real" Xenafan. But I must say that sometimes I get a bit bored with the standard phrasing used to describe the girls - who said that the hair or eye color, hight or the nicknames used must always be the same if you are to writhe an uber story ? Here you bards might take copyright into consideration and just set your mind free and give us a new "picture" for our mind movie. (OK - I might be completely out of line here. If thats the case then just writhe me off as a misguided lurker).

You misguided lurker

Ubers are all about referencing those specific characters (or paying homage to them, if you will), which is why they lean towards the clichéd/standard. There is, in fact, a debate somewhere else on the Forum regarding what makes an Uber - whether it's the physical, or the spiritual link, and so forth. It's made a little complicated by the fact that there is only an "uber/original" category, but for a wider variety you should perhaps try original fiction rather than uber?

by **ukendt001** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:12 pm

You misguided lurker Ubers are all about referencing those specific characters (or paying homage to them, if you will), which is why they lean towards the clichéd/standard. There is, in fact, a debate somewhere else on the Forum regarding what makes an Uber - whether it's the physical, or the spiritual link, and so forth. It's made a little complicated by the fact that there is only an "uber/original" category, but for a wider variety you should perhaps try original fiction rather than uber?

Ahhh I knew I missed something :don't tell:

I read both Uber and Original fiction and enjoy both and I do "get" the difference. I just think that the Uber category could profit from a little more "freedom" of the pen - get off the clichéd language and use that imagination to word an uber story based on the basic characteristics from the series without the cliches. (I might be misguided again - but I would guess that the girls in the series don't go around calling each other raven haired etc. so I would take it that the use of standard phrasing is more a "homage" to the Uber genre than to the characters). :i_don't_know:

by **k_alexander** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:51 am

(I might be misguided again - but I would guess that the girls in the series don't go around calling each other raven haired etc. so I would take it that the use of standard phrasing is more a "homage" to the Uber genre than to the characters).

Though I haven't watched more than perhaps four episodes of XWP, I somehow don't think they had the time to think of themselves in those terms, no. Or "cerulean-eyed". Lordy.

"Behind you, muscularly abbed (though eminently curvaceous) raven-haired cerulean-eyed womyn of my soul!"
(after this you'll have to imagine for yourself the look that Xena has on her face - and also the subsequent one, as she's run through with a sword while gawping at Gabrielle...)

I think there are only so many ways you can describe certain things, and those standard terms probably start seeping into your psyche after a while of reading ubers. I did start chatting about ubers and formulaic stories below, but 1) am easily distracted, and 2) don't write ubers, so I don't even know why I think I should be talking about them.

by **ukendt001** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:47 pm

"Behind you, muscularly abbed (though eminently curvaceous) raven-haired cerulean-eyed womyn of my soul!"
(after this you'll have to imagine for yourself the look that Xena has on her face - and also the subsequent one, as she's run through with a sword while gawping at Gabrielle...)

You might rethink the genre of your next story - it seems to me that You have all the right phrases ready at hand for a classic Uber and - even as a lurker - I would say that you have the potential to provide the reader with a hilarious afternoon. :big grin:

Ok - I promise no more Uber comments - I'll just get back to my reading.

by **kali_blue** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:40 pm

I know I read this book, but it was completely forgetable. :yawn:

I have read a few Nora Roberts books, but only those she writes using a pseudonym JD Robb. There have a sci-fic murder mystery twist to them and they aren't so much love stories as one couple so I can speed throu or skip any het-sex. Quirky tough as nails female cop & rich tech male who bends & breaks rules. all in all not a bad series.

I lurk sometimes as I just don't have much to say. I read a lot. I will add a constuctive comment and have even been a beta for plot. If I get inspired by the ideas & creativity and want it to work I'll provide feedback.

A warning would be nice on stories that have toon characters. People so unrealistic that it is hard to suspend belief. For example, The meglomaniac excessivley rich business woman who rules everything she touches, until finally she falls.... Those need a warning. :i_don't_know:

Perhaps a warning for the instant soul mate. :love struck:

(see across room or eyes meet & boom. ) I may still read it, but at least I'll be forewarned. :heehee:

I love fantasy & sci-fi and have gotten hooked on supernatural genre, and many of those have well developed characters who are not 1-dimensional.

As for feedback, I know I need to provide more. There are a lot of talented writers who ahre there work here :applause:

i wrote something once for a contest on AOB & I didn't get any feedback. :sad2:

Maybe I would have attempted to write more. I definitely wrote more columns when i got positive & negative feedback way back when. :batting_eyelashes:

I recommend stories from time to time and try to write something that gives a clue as to why I think this writer or story is special. :big hug:

Kali

by **k_alexander** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:52 am

ROTFL: You might rethink the genre of your next story - it seems to me that You have all the right phrases ready at hand for a classic Uber and - even as a lurker - I would say that you have the potential to provide the reader with a hilarious afternoon.

I would, but I can't compete with "Bad Sex" {http://cousinliz.com/fanfic/wordwarior_bs.html}, which is one of my absolute favourites! IF you haven't read it, please do - it's marvellous.

Ok - I promise no more Uber comments - I'll just get back to my reading

Hold on, I didn't mean that you shouldn't be talking about it! I love these sorts of discussions (you could catch me in a mousetrap if you baited it with a good conversation partner) but every now and then I get the distinct impression that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I don't write ubers, I rarely read ubers, and I haven't watched enough XWP episodes to be au fait with the characters... Nevertheless, if you can forgive my occasional cluelessness, by all means, lets talk uber! :big grin:

A warning would be nice on stories that have toon characters... Perhaps a warning for the instant soul mate.

Fabulous idea, kali_blue. I'd also lobby for "warning: grammatical mess", as someone else has mentioned before on this Forum.

by **ukendt001** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:27 pm

WARNINGS

Funny it seems to me that your are actually asking the writer to warn you against the writer him-/herself ?? :thinking:

It would be my guess that the writer is unable to "do" without the toon characters, the instant soul mate thing, the too hot and always fantastic first time sex, the standard phrasing etc. or els the writer enjoys just those story elements that you wish to be warned about - then is it really fair to ask the writer to put up a warning ?

In my opinion the writer should just execute his/her right to put the story together to his/her own liking and the reader - on the other hand - is always free to stop reading

- So warnings ... naha but I do like a short description of the storyline.

As for "Bad Sex" {http://cousinliz.com/fanfic/wordwarior_bs.html} - funny - but I still think that you should try your hand at a similar type of "make fun of the uber genre". You seem to have a wide vocabulary of standard uber phrases that could make a good basis for a "Bad Sex" kind of thing. (And from the lurker - I can see from the story Love Bites - if it's yours ? - that you are rather good at crating a funny storyline and dialog).

LESBIAN CHARACTERIZATION
Warning - I'm now leaving all the on-line fanfiction behind and moving into the world of "books in print". I think that the best lesbian characterization is found in the fiction where the focus is not on the "lesbian storyline" but in the general storyline where the sexuality of the figure is "just" an integrated part of the storyline.

It's not like there is a large amount of fiction with women who has a lesbian inclination - a few examples from my own bookshelf :

Manda Scott - Hens Teeth etc.
Ann Patchett - The Magician's Assistant
Laurie R. King - the books with detective Kate Martinelli
Naomi Alderman - Disobedience
Charlotte Mendelson - When we were bad and Daughters of Jerusalem
Abigail Padget - Blue

by **kali_blue** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:57 pm

Ukendt001,

ukendt001 wrote:WARNINGS

Funny it seems to me that your are actually asking the writer to warn you against the writer him-/herself ?? It would be my guess that the writer is unable to "do" without the toon characters, the instant soul mate thing, the too hot and always fantastic first time sex, the standard phrasing etc. or els the writer enjoys just those story elements that you wish to be warned about - then is it really fair to ask the writer to put up a warning ?

In my opinion the writer should just execute his/her right to put the story together to his/her own liking and the reader - on the other hand - is always free to stop reading - So warnings ... naha but I do like a short description of the storyline.

Perhaps sarcasm is lost in the translation. I was making a joke. :don't tell:

I would never expect an author to warn me about reading his/her work in that way. Who's actually going to write in their disclaimer, "several people told me I needed at least one beta, but I chose to ignore their advice and posted my story anyway". :heehee:

There are a lot of wonderful stories on The Athenaeum. I remember reading them way more than the few I didn't enjoy. :big grin:

Some people really like the instant glance love type of story :hug2:

or there wouldn't be so many of them. :laughing2:

I understand the warnings for violence or <gasp> sexual content, or even excessive angst, etc. I generally ignore most warnings, but that is me. Flashbacks, PTSD are not part of my life, and I am confident most of us respect the need for avoiding those stories that might bring up stuff or at least having a choice to avoid them.

The other warning I'd like is the i'm only going to write part of the story and I'll never ever finish it. Again I get it that life gets in the way. That said there are a number of great unfishished stories here. But unfinished is better than a 3 page abrupt ending. Although perhaps that stops the e-mails begging for more and starts those asking for a sequel. :peace:

Kali

by **ukendt001** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:15 pm

Perhaps sarcasm is lost in the translation.

Ups - your right I absolutely misread your comment ... now I feel much better - I was getting really worried that the bards would take to making lengthly warnings instead of writhing good stories ! :blushing:

To avoid further confusion I suggest that comments from now on is posted in my native language... or perhaps I should ask Bardeyes to set up a new rule for posting on the forum - "Please refrain from using sarcasm, irony and other rhetorical devices which might give rise to misunderstandings in a multinational forum."

by **k_alexander** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:33 am

The computer ate my original reply. I don't begrudge anyone a meal, but I'm not going to retype the entire thing again. And so, in short headlines, here are the highlights:

1) ukendt001 - Yes, Love Bites is mine, and thank you for the compliment. I am now seriously considering writing an uber-parody, if just to get away from the novel-length stuff for a little while. Wish I had a clichè master list - I'm bound to miss a few.

"several people told me I needed at least one beta, but I chose to ignore their advice and posted my story anyway"

This made me laugh quite a bit :laughing2:

"The other warning I'd like is the i'm only going to write part of the story and I'll never ever finish it."

I second this. It's just rude to your readers. I don't support posting unless you're either finished, or in the process of wrapping up.

"Please refrain from using sarcasm, irony and other rhetorical devices which might give rise to misunderstandings in a multinational forum."

That counts as a warning

by **king** » Thu May 10, 2018 10:06 pm

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